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Old 02-09-2010, 07:09 PM   #11
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In a properly designed and grounded system, a GFCI should be unnecessary
Yah and while this is true the operant word "should" ought not to go unnoticed.

Things happen. They just do. Circuits fail, wires slip away from their fastening points, screws vibrate loose, insulation breaks or wears, mineral rich water splashes and spills, and people make mistakes. Things go wrong.

The GFI is just one more way to try to minimize the harms that can occur when things go wrong.

That guy Murphy wasn't just whistling dixi.
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brewmoor View Post
Sure seems relevant! good contribution. I applaud you

Oh come on! You know what he was saying.

This thread could be the death of me! I soooo want it to be true that the GFCI is not necessary, but as was said before it has been drummed into my sub-conscious.

I suppose I'd better get one when i electrify my rig. I just wish I knew that it was really necessary!
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:16 PM   #13
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Didn't these things start as an 'outdoors' receptacle since there was an increased chance of dampness/wetness causing an issue?

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Old 02-09-2010, 07:37 PM   #14
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humm.... seems to be more debate here then I thought. I pretty much believed this to be a unanimous decision.

My take so far in this debate is that most use them to ensure that if any mistakes do occur from loose wires, water spillage....etc etc. then they will be safe. I have a problem with this statement.... feel free to call me out on it...

If you can't wire your system safely / correctly enough to rule out ANY such failures due to loose wires, spillage etc etc....then maybe you shouldn't be venturing into wiring your own system?

I simply don't see how a correctly wired system would subcomb to a spillage electricution? those wires should all be covered up safely.

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Old 02-09-2010, 07:38 PM   #15
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Your dad is an electrician and thinks GFCIs are unnecessary? Yikes.

Saying that if everything is properly grounded is enough is not correct. Electricity does not follow the path of least resistance. It follows ANY and EVERY path it can find. If you happen to be one of those paths, you'd better hope that it's only a few milliamps going through you, because it doesn't take much more than that to kill you if it goes across your heart. Slap your dad and get the GFCI.

BTW when you got hit years ago as an apprentice, it sounds as if you got hit by 277 volts. That doesn't tickle, and you feel it all day. Ouch.

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Old 02-09-2010, 07:41 PM   #16
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Lest my message above be misconstrued, the word "should" does carry meaning and was inserted intentionally. Anyone who has build things knows you can't control every aspect of a project and something unexpected will happen. In our case it may be a splash at just the wrong angle 10 years from now and a wire nut just came loose...

Spend the small amount on an interrupter and stay safe. The seat belt analogy was perfect. Thinking you are so good that you are safe is Hubris against Murphy's law.

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Old 02-09-2010, 07:41 PM   #17
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If it wasn't for my 2 year old son, I wouldn't have felt the imminent need to get one. I know where the live connections are and their exposure is limited. However, my son already knows what a screw stick is and how to use it. One day should he mimic the old man and work on the brewery or pop open the control panel and get into something and I happened to forget to unplug it, well it would be bad. Is it a pretty remote possibility? absolutely. Should he have to pay for a lapse in standard protocol on my part, no way. So I put in the gfci.

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Old 02-09-2010, 07:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Brewer View Post
Your dad is an electrician and thinks GFCIs are unnecessary? Yikes.

Saying that if everything is properly grounded is enough is not correct. Electricity does not follow the path of least resistance. It follows ANY and EVERY path it can find. If you happen to be one of those paths, you'd better hope that it's only a few milliamps going through you, because it doesn't take much more than that to kill you if it goes across your heart. Slap your dad and get the GFCI.

BTW when you got hit years ago as an apprentice, it sounds as if you got hit by 277 volts. That doesn't tickle, and you feel it all day. Ouch.
Yeah I was shaking for a while... although that was probably adrenaline. I sure did feel funny.

I'm wondering though... Maybe my dad doesn't think we need one because he has another cost effective idea? it's possible... this is coming from a man who built an electric car from stratch using an old Chevette .
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:58 PM   #19
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He said he was working on florescent. Those have high voltage ballasts in them. I have been hit by a neutral from a fluorescent. Does not feel good. They are a whole other beast to deal with. You don't really want to work on them when they are live. It is not like getting hit with normal 120v from a socket.

I agree with coderage. I know where my wires are. I know they are wired correctly. I would feel plenty safe without it. In the end though I put a GFCI in because ultimately my roomate and girlfriend and other people may be screwing around near my stuff.

I have said this before. If you do not know electricity, do not play with it. Call a certified electrician and have them wire something up for you. Yes we do step by step how to builds on this site but most of the people doing it. Know what they are doing. Electricity will kill you. Make sure you know what you are doing. GFCI or not.

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Old 02-09-2010, 08:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhermetz View Post
... this is coming from a man who built an electric car from stratch using an old Chevette .
I want to meet your dad. That man sounds cool. I told my girlfriend the other day. After my rig is built, I want to start researching an electric car build.

1980's volkswagon GTI all electric plug in.
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