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Old 02-12-2010, 03:33 AM   #131
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nah, if you grab 110 and you get the bejebus zapped out of you yet you aren't holding the neutral or ground. Current has found an alternate path to ground some how, hence the name ground fault. In the same scenario and you are holding onto both legs, some current is still going to leak to ground because you are not perfectly insulated. That small amount of leakage is enough to trip it.

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Old 02-12-2010, 03:41 AM   #132
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Across the hot and neutral on a GFCI you will be protected. Across two hots of a 2-pole GFCI (240V) and yourself ungrounded, I am not sure. Anyone know?
If you are not grounded and you get between the hot and neutral or the 2 hots in a GFCI protected system you have become the load and all the GFCI device knows is that there is a load connected to it and that there is no leakage to ground there for it will not trip. It Dose not know if it is a toaster or a person on the end of those wires and will not trip until it senses leakage to ground.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:44 AM   #133
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nah, if you grab 110 and you get the bejebus zapped out of you yet you aren't holding the neutral or ground. Current has found an alternate path to ground some how, hence the name ground fault. In the same scenario and you are holding onto both legs, some current is still going to leak to ground because you are not perfectly insulated. That small amount of leakage is enough to trip it.
If Im not perfectly insulated from ground then Red Wing owes me a new pair or boot because these aren't doing there job ......lol
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:57 AM   #134
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nah, if you grab 110 and you get the bejebus zapped out of you yet you aren't holding the neutral or ground. Current has found an alternate path to ground some how, hence the name ground fault. In the same scenario and you are holding onto both legs, some current is still going to leak to ground because you are not perfectly insulated. That small amount of leakage is enough to trip it.
I think you are correct. With a 1-pole device a difference in current between hot and neutral will trip the device and I like your explanation. But, theoretically if one were completely ungrounded you would have no fear of touching one leg, and if you touched 2 legs of a gfi device you would become the circuit and there should be no way for the device to sense a fault.

And this:

If you are not grounded and you get between the hot and neutral or the 2 hots in a GFCI protected system you have become the load and all the GFCI device knows is that there is a load connected to it and that there is no leakage to ground there for it will not trip. It Dose not know if it is a toaster or a person on the end of those wires and will not trip until it senses leakage to ground.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:16 AM   #135
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OK so I see that we agree to disagree to agree..... wait a minute, Im confused

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Old 02-12-2010, 12:19 PM   #136
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If you are not grounded and you get between the hot and neutral or the 2 hots in a GFCI protected system you have become the load and all the GFCI device knows is that there is a load connected to it and that there is no leakage to ground there for it will not trip. It Dose not know if it is a toaster or a person on the end of those wires and will not trip until it senses leakage to ground.

Um, when are you ungrounded? Are you able to levitate yourself? You are ALWAYS grounded, with the only possible exception being if you are standing on a really good insulating mat, one so expensive that no regular Joe will have it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:30 PM   #137
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Um, when are you ungrounded? Are you able to levitate yourself? You are ALWAYS grounded, with the only possible exception being if you are standing on a really good insulating mat, one so expensive that no regular Joe will have it.

My work boots are good to 18kV when new. It's the standard to achieve the Omega rating for electrical resistance.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:26 PM   #138
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OK so I see that we agree to disagree to agree..... wait a minute, Im confused
No, I think our statements were in agreement. And yes this is getting a little confusing now.

Being ungrounded, you can touch one leg of a circuit and not be electrocuted. Linemen do it all the time. So do birds sitting on a highline.

The two pole GFI example is just theoretical as it is quite unlikely you would ever be ungrounded in a brewing situation.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:13 PM   #139
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A misconception about misconceptions...

120VAC is the rms value of voltage. If you hook it to a resistive load, your total power dissipated would be equal to a 120VDC source. 120VAC is a sinusoidal waveform with limits of ±≈170V (120 √2) relative to ground. 240 uses 2 legs of 120 that are opposite each other to get your 240VAC rms voltage...

Honestly you're probably better off just forgetting all that unless its actually important to you... 240 has 2 hot legs and a ground, 120 has a hot, ground and neutral... thats good enough for most applications.

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Old 02-12-2010, 05:58 PM   #140
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My work boots are good to 18kV when new. It's the standard to achieve the Omega rating for electrical resistance.

Yeah, but is a regular Joe Homebrewer on this site going to own a pair of those? I doubt it. That was kinda my point. and even when you wear those, you need to be suited up on the rest of your body and still be sooooo careful not to touch anything with any other part of your body while you are working....
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