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Old 02-12-2010, 01:00 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by illin8 View Post
I've got a sump that, all of a sudden, is tripping the 20-amp GFCI plug that powers it. Never did it before. It's fine when connected to a non-gfci plug...makes me wonder if there is any harm in connecting it to a non-gfci recepticle. The sump pumps wastewater from my utility sink up 4' to the wastewater pipe in my basement.
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gfci's are only meant to protect people, not equipment. you won't harm the pump by putting it on a non-gfci

You won't harm the pump, but GFCIs are required in basements by the NEC, and there is no longer an exception for sump pumps. Personally, I think that this rule is absolutely insane, but code is code. To do it legally, you are going to need a new pump.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:19 AM   #112
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You won't harm the pump, but GFCIs are required in basements by the NEC, and there is no longer an exception for sump pumps. Personally, I think that this rule is absolutely insane, but code is code. To do it legally, you are going to need a new pump.
Or a new GFCI. They do go bad too.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:26 AM   #113
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You won't harm the pump, but GFCIs are required in basements by the NEC, and there is no longer an exception for sump pumps. Personally, I think that this rule is absolutely insane, but code is code. To do it legally, you are going to need a new pump.
yeah i agree it's insane. given the choice between a new ejector pump or an extension cord/non gfci recep, i think most people will end up picking the latter
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:30 AM   #114
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i think in the 2011 nec all standard receps in a kitchen have to be gfci protected
Wow is this an old requirement like 10 years ago.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:37 AM   #115
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Really, then why is the only legal way to replace old two wire receptacles with three wires is by way of a gfci? There is no ground involved. They monitor the current between ungrounded and grounded conductors. It is amazing how many electricians think the ground is involved. Wouldn't you have to run the ground through the receptacle?

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_gfcis_work/

I didn't erase the above for other peoples benefit.

I just reread what you wrote, I think I may have mis-read it. I thought you were saying that the ground and ungrounded conductor were monitored.
But, I was replacing a switch that was on the load side of a GFCI, I thought the cirucit was off, and while cutting the hot, my strippers were touching the swich and boom, now a #14 hole right in the middle of the cutters on my strippers. GFCI did not trip, breaker did, and after I finished, I used my tester and the GFCI was working correctly??

All I was trying to point out that it is not the GFCI's job to protect against short circuits, at least not at the residential level.
So YOU were the tech I ruined a brand new pair of klein strippers doing the same thing. I use a voltage wand and/or meter on EVERYTHING now and don't trust what any one says unless my lockout is on the breaker.

Glad you picked up what I was putting down, sorry if I wasn't clear.

The only reason why I could think the gfci didn't break is because you could have shorted neutral and line together. this way the current on the neutral and line would still be balanced. Thats like a 1 in a million shot though.

If it was an AFCI and it didn't trip, then I would be really concerned

Happy to hear you are okay, nothing like playing dr. arc and spark to get you going in the morning.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:43 AM   #116
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Or a new GFCI. They do go bad too.
True.........

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yeah i agree it's insane. given the choice between a new ejector pump or an extension cord/non gfci recep, i think most people will end up picking the latter

Or you could move to WI. We have an exception-sort of. As long as the pump is plugged into a single receptacle, and there is a GFCI within 3 feet, we can go without GFCI.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:44 AM   #117
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So YOU were the tech I ruined a brand new pair of klein strippers doing the same thing. I use a voltage wand and/or meter on EVERYTHING now and don't trust what any one says unless my lockout is on the breaker.

Glad you picked up what I was putting down, sorry if I wasn't clear.

The only reason why I could think the gfci didn't break is because you could have shorted neutral and line together. this way the current on the neutral and line would still be balanced. Thats like a 1 in a million shot though.

If it was an AFCI and it didn't trip, then I would be really concerned

Happy to hear you are okay, nothing like playing dr. arc and spark to get you going in the morning.
Code; I would rather replace strippers blown away than a pair of 9' side cutters. Tic Trace or Knopp are your best friends. Side cutters have gone up times five in price vs back in 75.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:56 AM   #118
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True.........




Or you could move to WI. We have an exception-sort of. As long as the pump is plugged into a single receptacle, and there is a GFCI within 3 feet, we can go without GFCI.
They have electricity now in WI.? I thought they still ran off 32 volts of battery banks with a Chicago AeroMotor Windmill Generators for lighting. I recall some states even in the late 40's early 50's still had battery / generator lighting in the mid west. Way past the time of Hit & Miss powered generators. I had to pick on ya bro.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:03 AM   #119
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I like this thread. If there is one thing to take from it...USE A GFI on your brew rig!

A GFCI device will monitor current leaving the breaker or receptacle and not returning along the proper path (grounded or neutral conductor). If current somehow leaks to ground via another path (through a person for example) the device trips.

A standard circuit breaker will trip with a direct short to ground or overcurrent. I have all metal parts of my brew rig bonded (attached together forming a common electrical point which is then tied to ground). I feel quite confident that a live wire that comes into contact with any metal parts of my brew rig will trip a standard breaker. I see this as my primary protection. But if somehow I should loose my bonding/grounding to any piece of metal on my rig and it becomes energized, and I shoud happen to touch it, I would be at risk with a standard breaker. A GFI would sense a leak of current along an improper path and trip.

My point: If you have a properly bonded/grounded set up to begin with and can guarantee that bonding/grounding, you should feel quite safe. If you have that with added GFCI protection there is not much that can go wrong.

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Old 02-12-2010, 02:07 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by lschiavo View Post
I like this thread. If there is one thing to take from it...USE A GFI on your brew rig!

A GFCI device will monitor current leaving the breaker or receptacle and not returning along the proper path (grounded or neutral conductor). If current somehow leaks to ground via another path (through a person for example) the device trips.
Doesn't monitor the ground, just neutral and line. If anything leaks onto THE ground it will trip.
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