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Old 02-11-2010, 03:54 PM   #101
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I didn't read through all this but my take on it is that GFCI does work. I had a saltwater reef tank plugged into an external GFCI/extenstion cord. I was hooking up my new lights and the whole thing fell into the tank, my first reaction was to grab it then I realize what I was doing and pulled my hand out. The GFCI popped and I didn't feel a thing so I am a firm believer in GFCI. I did have to buy a new ballast.
You should have a titanium rod in the tank, tied to earth gnd. Maybe you do already.

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Old 02-11-2010, 04:13 PM   #102
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You should have a titanium rod in the tank, tied to earth gnd. Maybe you do already.

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T5 it was the new thing back then, the funny thing is you would think I learned my lesson the first time and not reach in but it saved my arse a few times


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Old 02-11-2010, 05:06 PM   #103
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Huh?

If when he had cut the cord and he bridged 110 and neutral ONLY and was 100% insulated the gfci would not have popped but the breaker would have.

Had he made contact with ground and 110 first or if he himself started to conduct current to ground, the gfci would have popped.

When you press the test button on a gfci, it leaks current from the line to ground.
Really, then why is the only legal way to replace old two wire receptacles with three wires is by way of a gfci? There is no ground involved. They monitor the current between ungrounded and grounded conductors. It is amazing how many electricians think the ground is involved. Wouldn't you have to run the ground through the receptacle?

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_gfcis_work/

I didn't erase the above for other peoples benefit.

I just reread what you wrote, I think I may have mis-read it. I thought you were saying that the ground and ungrounded conductor were monitored.
But, I was replacing a switch that was on the load side of a GFCI, I thought the cirucit was off, and while cutting the hot, my strippers were touching the swich and boom, now a #14 hole right in the middle of the cutters on my strippers. GFCI did not trip, breaker did, and after I finished, I used my tester and the GFCI was working correctly??

All I was trying to point out that it is not the GFCI's job to protect against short circuits, at least not at the residential level.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:19 PM   #104
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How do you differentiate current in vs out on a 240 circuit since both sides supply current? Many home appliances that use 240 also have 120 components. I've done amperage readings on dryers and there is a difference in current on the leg that has the motor. I can hardly wait for the people that build the GFCI's to get them mandated for all home appliances.
i think in the 2011 nec all standard receps in a kitchen have to be gfci protected
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:44 PM   #105
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GFCI detects leak current. Going to ground is the most common leak, but it's no different to a GFCI than going somewhere else. As long as what goes out on one hot comes back on the other, the GFCI will not trip. That's why you can use it where there is no ground.

Just to jump in here on the original issue, I would never consider not using GFCI on my electric build. I can think of several scenarios out of my control that would trip one. The best state,ement I heard here was that current will not only take the path of least resistance, but it will take all paths that it can find. If you're a high impedance short, you'll get the poke without tripping the breaker.

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Old 02-11-2010, 05:48 PM   #106
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i think in the 2011 nec all standard receps in a kitchen have to be gfci protected
They are now if I recall. SA(small appliance circuits). I don't think they will require GFCI for appliances that do not get unplugged often or ever. It would be hard to pull the stove out and dunk it into the sink. They want to protect people from things like blenders and toaster ovens because they can be moved into wet situations. Microwaves don't need them. Bathrooms do again SA.

Washers/Dryers, Stoves, Hot Water heaters, boilers, and other permanant appliances are usually exempt from the GFCI codes.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:55 PM   #107
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They are now if I recall. SA(small appliance circuits). I don't think they will require GFCI for appliances that do not get unplugged often or ever. It would be hard to pull the stove out and dunk it into the sink. They want to protect people from things like blenders and toaster ovens because they can be moved into wet situations. Microwaves don't need them. Bathrooms do again SA.

Washers/Dryers, Stoves, Hot Water heaters, boilers, and other permanant appliances are usually exempt from the GFCI codes.
I've seen brand new functional appliances trip these things. No sign of leakage current though I didn't have a triggered scope to find out for sure. But plug them into another non GFCI outlet and test, they worked fine, still no sign of any voltage to ground.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:08 PM   #108
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I've got a sump that, all of a sudden, is tripping the 20-amp GFCI plug that powers it. Never did it before. It's fine when connected to a non-gfci plug...makes me wonder if there is any harm in connecting it to a non-gfci recepticle. The sump pumps wastewater from my utility sink up 4' to the wastewater pipe in my basement.

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Old 02-11-2010, 09:52 PM   #109
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I've got a sump that, all of a sudden, is tripping the 20-amp GFCI plug that powers it. Never did it before. It's fine when connected to a non-gfci plug...makes me wonder if there is any harm in connecting it to a non-gfci recepticle. The sump pumps wastewater from my utility sink up 4' to the wastewater pipe in my basement.
The most likely culprit is the windings are starting to loose their insulation and leaking small amounts of current somewhere. the pump is more than likely fine but won't work with the gfci attached.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:07 AM   #110
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I've got a sump that, all of a sudden, is tripping the 20-amp GFCI plug that powers it. Never did it before. It's fine when connected to a non-gfci plug...makes me wonder if there is any harm in connecting it to a non-gfci recepticle. The sump pumps wastewater from my utility sink up 4' to the wastewater pipe in my basement.
gfci's are only meant to protect people, not equipment. you won't harm the pump by putting it on a non-gfci


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