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Old 10-16-2007, 02:57 AM   #1
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Default chiller from hell

Check this out!
My Brother-in-Law made this immersion chiller. 85 feet of copper dropping wort from 212deg to 68deg in under 7 minutes


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Where's my beer. I know I left it around here somewhere.....
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:59 AM   #2
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I'll take one. No seriously send it to me I'll give ya a sixer of Pabst for it.

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Old 10-16-2007, 03:28 AM   #3
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Haha, that's just the sort of bad dream I often have. More is always better!

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Old 10-16-2007, 07:30 AM   #4
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Wow.....that looks like something out of "Starship Troopers"! I almost want to shoot it!

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Old 10-16-2007, 07:32 AM   #5
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If he ever gets tired of using it as an IC, he could put it in the HLT and make an AWESOME HERMS! Think about how much wort would be in contact with the HLT; you could probably raise your mash a few degrees a minute!

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Old 10-16-2007, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve
If he ever gets tired of using it as an IC, he could put it in the HLT and make an AWESOME HERMS! Think about how much wort would be in contact with the HLT; you could probably raise your mash a few degrees a minute!
That's a great point. Nick (My Bro-in-law) was over yesterday to brew. He cranked out a red hook knock off and I did a porter... but I was blown away by how fast it dropped the temp. I don't know if I'd use it in a HLT situation... might end up acting like a giant strainer....lol
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Originally Posted by jmendez29 View Post
Mom was right. Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Where's my beer. I know I left it around here somewhere.....
Kegged/Drinking:Nihilistic Integrity - Black IPA, #1 BIAB pale ale, Bells Two Hearted - yes a keg of the real stuff
Kegged/Conditioning:Wally N Seans Braggot, Emerald Eyes - Irish Red, Atomic Tsunami - brown
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:40 PM   #7
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Default search for the most efficient chill

In the search for the most efficient chill at the cheapest cost... I did what most would do... break out a calculator, start to do the math, get frustrated and call someone with more knowledge than my own. I called my dad (retired engineer) and showed him Nicksteck's chiller. This is what became of the conversation:

You will get a faster chill with less copper as long as you have a higher temp differential. In other words the longer the copper - the longer your chill water is exposed to the heat of the wort. this is actually (according to Dad) less efficient. Ever notice that when chilling, you go from boil to around 100 deg and then the chill rate slows? It's because at temps around 100 deg, there is a smaller differential in temps of wort vs. chill water. (at this point we switch from house water to recirculated ice water)

Now we also know you can go the other way by having too little copper for heat transfer, IE: 3ft of copper would take forever to chill 5 gal of wort. So what is the right amount of copper?
I'm about to build an IC chiller that's kind of like Nicksteck's, but with the following changes: I'll build, and record the outcome for future ref. I'll post my results.

2 each 3/4 inch copper input and output like Nickstecks.
16 each 1/4 inch ID copper at 28 inch lengths which would net me 37 feet 4 inches of heat exchange copper vs. his 85 ft of copper.

Now, 3/4 in. copper pipe = .44 square inches of area for flow. That is equal to 9 units of 1/4 in ID copper tube. I'm adding an additional 7 units, so there will be a drop in flow rate as soon as the water hits the 1/4in copper. The water should have enough exposure time to adequately transfer the heat while keeping the heat differential great enough to operate efficiently.

Ideas? Comments? Experience?

Science is good, Beer is great, Science & Beer together is awsome!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmendez29 View Post
Mom was right. Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Where's my beer. I know I left it around here somewhere.....
Kegged/Drinking:Nihilistic Integrity - Black IPA, #1 BIAB pale ale, Bells Two Hearted - yes a keg of the real stuff
Kegged/Conditioning:Wally N Seans Braggot, Emerald Eyes - Irish Red, Atomic Tsunami - brown
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:58 PM   #8
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I wonder if a big copper box with baffles in it directing the flow of water would work well...sorta like a muffler.

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Old 10-26-2007, 06:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee John
Science is good, Beer is great, Science & Beer together is awsome!
QFT

Do you think all this extra work will have a greater effect than just varying the rate of flow at the point where the temperatures aren't far apart? Like... have it run really slow untill you reach 100F, then turn it up?

Well, ok.... I guess the more copper you throw in there the better the cooling will be....
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:22 PM   #10
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> the longer your chill water is exposed to the heat of the wort this is actually
> (according to Dad) less efficient.


I'm not sure if you mis-understood your dad or mis-communicated here. For any given flow, a long pipe is not less efficient than a short one. The longer pipe reaches a point beyond which further increases in length yield little increase in performance (the point of diminishing returns). I'm guessing you got his point, because your explanation of why it does so was correct.

That's precisely why your 37ft of parallel tubes sourced from a 3/4" feed will cool much better than a single 37ft piece linear copper. If you wanted to go uber-geek on this one, find the precise length of 1/4" copper required to cool the wort to the point of diminishing returns and make them all that length. That will be as fast as you can possibly go.

Frictional loss in laminar flow is related to pipe diameter. If your calculations are simply matching 3/4" area to 1/4" total area, your tubes will be undersized for full flow. Try upgrading to 3/8" tube or increasing your number of tubes for max fluid flow.

One final thought: Perhaps the biggest reason discussions here generally center around a single linear piece is ease of construction.

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