Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Carbon monoxide hazards are real
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-09-2008, 05:46 PM   #31
JoePolvino
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 34
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boothbrew
I brew in my basement and have a co monitor right by my brew area
Same here. I keep a CO detector, fire extinguisher, and a cordless phone nearby. Take a look at my
around 3:58 to see the fan panel I made that fits in my basement walkout door frame.

Even in a garage with the door open, I'd suggest opening a window and using a fan to move fresh air in.
__________________
JoePolvino is offline
Riley454 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-16-2008, 05:29 PM   #32
Loweface
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posts: 1,042
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by z987k
Co != Co2 ............
CO is Carbon Monoxide formed mainly by the incomplete combustion of fuels. In the above example from dirty burner and a stiffled flame...

CO2 is Carbon Dioxide formed from the complete combustion of all fossil fuels be it propane or natural gas or even biofuels. It too is dangerous. Technically it is toxic but we can exhale it so it's danger is that it displaces the oxygen from the air (normal O2 count in air is only about 21% by volume) we breath. If the O2 concentration falls we see similar effects to CO poisoning... See http://siri.uvm.edu/ppt/confspc1/sld011.htm
__________________
Loweface is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2008, 04:50 AM   #33
BG73395
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

We rent our home in Colorado,, it is an older place. We have an older stove in here and the property management company put a Carbon monoxide detector in our small living room(near the kitchen). Last year SWMBO made me dinner for my birthday and the detector went crazy. We called the fire depatment and sure enough the levels where high in the house. The stove wasnt set properly for high altitude( we live at 8800 ft above sea level) ...after that I will always have one in the house.

__________________
BG73395 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2008, 05:38 AM   #34
calpyro
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Albion, State of Jefferson USA
Posts: 270
Liked 29 Times on 18 Posts

Default

I work as a fireman and I know first hand the effects of CO. I have been subjected to CO throughout my 25 year career and I have become sensitized to the cumulative exposures. In short, the more that I have been exposed, the more sensitive I have become. Now after 25 years, simply walking into a room with CO will cause me to become almost immediately dizzy. Many people are subjecting themselves to levels of CO that will sensitize their bodies and will become, like me, ultra-sensitive.

Also at work, I perform fire inspections in a large commercial and industrial area that frequently uses propane and other heating gasses for supplemental heating. Out of curiosity, I bring our fire department CO monitor (very sophisticated six-gas monitor) to sample the atmosphere. Propane heaters, burners, un-vented furnaces and other gas devices all produce large amounts of CO. In the last year due to our monitoring, we have evacuated seven buildings during routine fire inspections due to dangerous levels of CO.

People seem to just not understand that these propane burners produce dangerous levels of CO.
When I get together with other home brewers and brew inside, I almost immediately feel the effects of CO. While I don't have access to my CO monitor, from experience I can tell that as soon as I get light-headed, the CO level is already at dangerous levels.

My advice is NEVER use a propane burner inside without large amounts of ventilation. A fan or window opening simply won't be adequate. The size of burners home brewers are using would require a commercial stove vent hood arrangement to keep up with the CO produced. If brewing in a garage, leave the door completely open. Brewing in a basement in my opinion is suicide. CO is heavier than air and will fill the basement with invisible poison gas. Children and pets can easily be overcome with CO that accumulates in low areas. A child playing on the floor, or a person sitting in a chair will unknowingly expose themselves to potentially deadly levels of CO.

This stuff is real. I and many of my coworkers have been hospitalized due to CO and most dead fire victims succumb first to CO. If you need to brew indoors, leave the garage door up and put on a coat if it is cold. Keeping yourself warm in a bath of CO is a losers game.

__________________
calpyro is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2008, 09:55 PM   #35
Stratotankard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Stratotankard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville, AR
Posts: 662
Liked 6 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pldoolittle View Post
IIRC, the sensors in CO detectors depleted by use. Can you confirm or deny?

If so, a CO unit might last a lifetime in a house, but need to be replaced much sooner in a higher-CO environment like a brewery.
As I understand it, the electronic CO detectors deplete fairly slowly (7year replacement), but the little sticky color change disks go much faster (6 months)
The color change ones (often sold to pilots to monitor for exhaust getting into the cabins of small planes) are very inexpensive, but you have to look at them to know if somethings wrong. Not a problem in a small plane where you can stick it on the glare shield.

Terje
__________________

---------------------------------------------
Primary: Burned Mead
Secondary: Bourbon Barrel Porter
Bottled: More Bourbon Barrel Porter, New Pekin Common, Flat Tail Old Ale, Bad Monkey Banana Wine, Flanders Red, Pumpkin Ale
Drinking: Too Much
On deck: Something crazy to use up the 3+ pounds of hops sitting in my freezer

Stratotankard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-09-2008, 05:38 PM   #36
thebrewguy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8
Default

Great post!! I am going to add one to my euipment also!! I usually have 3 doors open when i brew!! I am adding a couple windows so i will put some fans in those also next time!!
Thanks for the post & all the info everybody!!

__________________
thebrewguy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2008, 12:03 PM   #37
rico567
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
rico567's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central IL
Posts: 3,018
Liked 82 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

"It can be given off by home appliances or even a car in an attached garage."

....which leads to one of my favorite cautions, which is the aforementioned garage. Attached garages are a "convenient menace," as far as I'm concerned, and I wouldn't buy a house with one. We tore down our old detached garage last year, and built a new one on a different foundation....50 feet from the house. People who are meticulous about what their kids eat & drink think nothing of having them sleep above an attached garage. Apart from the CO under discussion, where's the most dangerous stuff in the household generally stored? Think: gasoline, kerosene, thinners, solvents, pesticides, herbicides, propane cylinders, etc. Right the first time!
__________________

“Malt does more than Milton can / To justify God’s ways to man”

-A. E. Housman (1859–1936). A Shropshire Lad , 1896.

rico567 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2008, 03:03 AM   #38
IanFrank211
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rochester
Posts: 14
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Info on CO

The Effects of Carbon Monoxide
CO

* 35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
* 100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours
* 200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours
* 400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours
* 800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes. Insensible within two hours.
* 1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, dizziness, and nausea within 20 minutes. Death in less than two hours.
* 3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
* 6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Death in less than 20 minutes.
* 12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2-3 breaths[citation needed]. Death in less than three minutes.
__________________

"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

IanFrank211 is offline
Riley454 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2008, 01:06 AM   #39
gxm
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 556
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I wanted to thank whoever decided to make this thread a sticky.

When testing my AG equipment the other day, I realized I could smell something (I know CO is odorless, but if I can smell combustion, I'm probably breathing CO too). I saw this thread, and realized I needed to put the burner next to the open door with a fan blowing out. A detector and a fire extinguisher are on my list for the next run to the hardware store.

__________________
gxm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-06-2008, 07:56 PM   #40
kappclark
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kappclark's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southern VT
Posts: 1,608
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePolvino View Post
Same here. I keep a CO detector, fire extinguisher, and a cordless phone nearby. Take a look at my brewing video around 3:58 to see the fan panel I made that fits in my basement walkout door frame.

Even in a garage with the door open, I'd suggest opening a window and using a fan to move fresh air in.
Joe - Nice video ... I bet your brew is just as nice (smile)

I am thinking abt brewing in basement, but want to be sure I have proper ventilation ... I think I can open 2 bulkhead doors and put a box fan blowing out the window near where the boilpot will be .. I think I will use electric for the HLT ..

Maybe just go all electric .. the CO poisoning issue is a lot bigger than I first thought ..
__________________

Bill Clark
Windham, VT

kappclark is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brewing and Carbon Monoxide skyzo Wine Making Forum 3 06-06-2009 10:20 PM
Where's the carbon coming from? Fingers Recipes/Ingredients 1 05-02-2009 01:14 AM
Getting to much carbon Beertk General Techniques 3 02-06-2008 09:00 PM
dinitrogen monoxide shafferpilot Bottling/Kegging 23 12-08-2007 02:44 AM