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Old 01-07-2009, 12:28 AM   #1
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Default Buying buttons/switches on Ebay is pissing me off... can someone translate?

Hey guys!

I'm trying to buy a bunch of good industrial water/oil resistant buttons off of Ebay to use in my brewing control panel. Names like Allen-Bradley, Cutler Hammer, ABB, etc. Stuff that can live up to abuse. Stuff I'm used to seeing on plant floors.

Problem is the terminology. Some of it doesn't make sense to me and I'm familiar with terms like DPST (double pole/double throw), NO (normally open), NC (normally closed). Some of this stuff baffles me as they never seem to tell you how many poles or throws any of these switches have.

Example 1: NEW 22MM Selector Switch 3 Position Maintained 1NO/1NC
Ebay Link

It says it's a "SELECTOR SWITCH, 3 POSITION * MAINTAINED, 1 NO/1NC". Ok, it's switch with 3 positions but what's open/closed in each of the 3 positions? How can it have 1 NO contact and 1 NC contact? Under which circumstances? How many poles? Since it's 3 position is that 3-throw?


Example 2: PUSHBUTTON SELECTOR SWITCH AB ALLEN BRADLEY 800T-H2 XA
Ebay Link

Seems simple. It says it's a "2 P0SITION SELECTOR SWITCH. 1 NORMALLY OPEN AND 1 NORMALLY CLOSED CONTACT BLOCK". Ok, that makes sense, but why the word PUSHBUTTON in the title? How's that possible? It's a 2-position rotating switch. Or is it?


Example 3: Telemecanique Latching Select ON-OFF-ON Switch,EJ33
Ebay Link

It says it's a "Selector Switch. ON(left)-OFF(middle)-ON(right) LATCHING TYPE.". So it's 3 throw right? Or is it? But exactly how are the contacts wired? How am I supposed to know that? What's "Latching" mean? Does that mean "maintained"? (Ie: not momentary contact?)


Simple SPST switches (like example 2) are easy. Problem is that I'm looking for a DP3T (double pole, 3 throw) switch because I want to be able to be able to do the following in one switch so that only either my BK or HLT element is on at once in my 30A setup:

(1) Have BK PID send a control signal to BK SSR while HLT PID is cut off from HLT SSR.
(2) Both PIDs cut off from sending a signal to the PIDs (Switch center/off position).
(3) Have HLT PID send a control signal to HLT SSR while BK PID is cut off from BK SSR.

Forgetting Ebay for a moment, can anyone recommend any online stores that sell NEMA 4/12 style switches/buttons/pilot lights?

Kal


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Old 01-07-2009, 12:40 AM   #2
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Sometimes those stores hire people to put things on ebay who know nothing about what they're selling. It sounds like you know exactly what you want....you should just send the seller a message or call them. Ebay can be a PITA, or you can score cool stuff on the cheap. I guess it's a two way street.

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Old 01-07-2009, 12:44 AM   #3
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Hey Steve, thanks for the input. Emailing them all would be a full time job.

I don't think it's that they don't know what they're talking about as I'm noticing very similar terminology with most of the sales so I think there's something I'm missing. Maybe these industrial switches are incredibly simple inside so that multiple poles/throws aren't usually done or something so how they work can be described simply. I dunno.

I wish I had a place I could walk in to and play around and try these things out. Trying to do it online is wasting me hours and hours. Frustrating.

Kal

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Old 01-07-2009, 12:50 AM   #4
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If I'm reading this correctly, you want a DPDT switch with an off or "neutral" center position.

EDIT:
Perhaps like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/30-Amp-DPDT-3-Po...3286.m20.l1116

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Old 01-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #5
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Hi Yuri!

Yes! That's exactly what I need. I didn't know you could buy double throw switches with an 'off' or 'neutral'. I was going to use the center pole as the off but this is better/simpler.

So the switch is exactly what I want, but I want an industrialized version like in the examples above. One that can be exposed to the elements.

This helps a lot though - thanks! I have extra ammo now.

Kal

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Old 01-07-2009, 01:12 PM   #6
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Ok, so it really is something I'm missing. Take this 3-position switch (brand is Telemecanique):

Switch, 22mm, Selector OPERATOR, STD. LEVER, 3 Position, MAINT./MAINT./MAINT.


The official manufacturer's page is here.

So it has 3 positions and the positions are mainted (not spring-back momentary).
Here's the datasheet: http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Pro...E/226-0093.PDF

Here's the page from the official allied catalog: Allied Electronics - Catalog
(See figure 11 or 12).

Nowhere does it explain to me how many poles or throws it has. I need at least double pole double throw with a dead neutral (center). How is someone to know? What am I missing? This could be a single pole switch with 3 throws for all I know.

Kal

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Old 01-07-2009, 01:15 PM   #7
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Edit Edit:

Ok this one... but not waterproof

http://www.fruitridgetools.com/store...id=8171&dfid=1

Leviton 1288 brown DPDT (double pole, double throw), center-off, maintained contact switch (manufactured by Pass & Seymour). Industrial Specification Grade, back and side wired, grounding, rated 30A 120/277VAC. Features include:

* Positive switching action with center-off position
* Large silver cadmium-oxide contacts for long life and to prevent sticking, welding and excessive pitting
* Clamp-type terminals accept up to #10 copper wire
* Full rated current capacity on fluorescent, tungsten and resistive loads; motor load capacity up to 80% switch current rating

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Old 01-07-2009, 01:21 PM   #8
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From the catalog on your allied switch

10 Amp, 600 V Contact Ratings

I still don't know how many poles it is though (Says up to 9 circuits?)

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Old 01-07-2009, 01:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post
Ok, so it really is something I'm missing. Take this 3-position switch (brand is Telemecanique):

Switch, 22mm, Selector OPERATOR, STD. LEVER, 3 Position, MAINT./MAINT./MAINT.


The official manufacturer's page is here.

So it has 3 positions and the positions are mainted (not spring-back momentary).
Here's the datasheet: http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Pro...E/226-0093.PDF

Here's the page from the official allied catalog: Allied Electronics - Catalog
(See figure 11 or 12).

Nowhere does it explain to me how many poles or throws it has. I need at least double pole double throw with a dead neutral (center). How is someone to know? What am I missing? This could be a single pole switch with 3 throws for all I know.

Kal
That is just the operator, you would need to buy the contacts separately. Many of the switches you are looking at are modular, you can put together nearly any combo you need.


I think this is the part you would need to complete that switch...

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...&DESC=ZB4BZ103

With the 3 position operator it should be on-off-on. I would recommend you call to confirm before ordering.


Example #3 looks to be the same thing.
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conpewter View Post
From the catalog on your allied switch

10 Amp, 600 V Contact Ratings

I still don't know how many poles it is though (Says up to 9 circuits?)
If I understand correctly, Kal wants to switch the control between his PIDs & SSRs.

The one from fruitridge woud be perfect if he was switching the power side, overkill on the control side...
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