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**2BeerSpeer** · 02-17-2012, 06:02 PM

I curious or the pros and cons for 1 1/2 versus 2 inch square tubing....Thanks in advance

**OneHoppyGuy** · 02-17-2012, 10:37 PM

Depends on the span and size of kettles. 1.75 is a good choice in mild steel (hard to find and expensive in stainless) for most upper rails. Lower rail can be 1.5 x 1 or 2 x 1. Legs at 1.5 are plenty. Center vertical supports do little if anything.
Some stands (MoreBeer) are built with 2 x 1 upper rail and legs.

day_trippr · 02-18-2012, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHoppyGuy

[...]Center vertical supports do little if anything.[...]

You've posted that thought frequently. What's it based upon? Seems to me nearly halving the upper rail deflection actually is "doing quite a bit".

As for the op's question, I've seen some pretty big kettles sitting on 1.5" square tubing. I think you'd need to be doing rather huge batches to justify going to 2" square, and taking the weight and cost hits...

Cheers!

**OneHoppyGuy** · 02-18-2012, 06:39 AM

based on experience... I built several prototypes (wanna buy a prototype?)
Really?
If you bought steel on a regular basis you wouldn't say that... (pennies different in cost)
If you want extra bracing, run a tube diagonally from the center down to either end.

day_trippr · 02-18-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHoppyGuy

based on experience... I built several prototypes (wanna buy a prototype?)

Well, your experience that led you to conclude a center support tying top to bottom rails does little to nothing wrt top rail deflection pretty much defies the whole principle of elastic modulus. Considering how many structures like bridges, buildings and even furniture have been built using that principle, I think I'd follow the science over inexplicably contrary experience.

As for buying steel on a regular basis or in large quantities, I don't, so on that at least I'd defer to your experience

Cheers!

**motobrewer** · 02-18-2012, 03:42 PM

day_trippr, can you show your work that led you to believe that by not including a vertical support his stand is being stressed outside the elastic range? also, i don't understand how by him not welding a vert support is "defying the whole principle of elastic modulus"

also...how much for a proto stand??

day_trippr · 02-19-2012, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motobrewer

day_trippr, can you show your work that led you to believe that by not including a vertical support his stand is being stressed outside the elastic range? also, i don't understand how by him not welding a vert support is "defying the whole principle of elastic modulus"

also...how much for a proto stand??

One of the problems with language is so few people are skilled at using it.

I actually never said anything that could be interpreted as "stressed outside the elastic range". Aside from such curious creativity on your part, that would be applying absolutes to what was clearly more a philosophical discussion.

Allow me to clarify the discussion at hand.

Mister Brewstand has frequently made the statement "Center vertical supports do little if anything", without providing any clarity of how that statement should be interpreted.

I took it to mean that tying one tier to a second tier would have no effect on weight-induced deflection. Certainly such a view would be silly, even if only applying common sense, never mind physical science.

But perhaps what he really meant was there wasn't a need for vertical ties from upper to lower spans - that the upper span of a stand would have sufficient intrinsic weight-bearing capability that tying it to a lower span is unnecessary.

If the latter interpretation was his intent, that's a totally different meaning, and one with which I might well have agreed, given a certain set of assumptions, of course.

Otoh, if he really believes the former...well, me, common sense and the physical sciences will stand securely on the other side of the question.

So, while it's still a mystery to me what the actual statement is/was supposed to convey, I hope this helps you understand my response...

Cheers!

**motobrewer** · 02-19-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by day_trippr

One of the problems with language is so few people are skilled at using it.

blah blah

But perhaps what he really meant was there wasn't a need for vertical ties from upper to lower spans - that the upper span of a stand would have sufficient intrinsic weight-bearing capability that tying it to a lower span is unnecessary.

yeah, i understand it perfectly. you are trying to sound smart without really saying anything at all.

if you thought he was talking about anything other than that, I'd say you are the one "unskilled at using language".

**2BeerSpeer** · 02-19-2012, 01:36 PM

wow, quite a thead I started....It will cost me $68 in tubing for 1 1/2" and $84 for 2"...I don't mind paying the extra just wanted to see if there was any real disadvantages to using 2"...I think the keggles look a lot better on the beefy frame but hate to use it if its gonna cause issues!

**freshhoarse** · 02-19-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2BeerSpeer

I curious or the pros and cons for 1 1/2 versus 2 inch square tubing....Thanks in advance

Lol. Bet you're sorry you asked....