And thats it, young beer is quite immune to the bacteria. I know people who just wash the bottles with hot tap water, no sanitation whasoever and they also claim they never had any infection in the bottle.
BUT you know, I try to make TBBP (the best beer possible), so I try to apply best techniques on each stage. Maybe, due to good bottle sanitation beer will gain 1-2 points?
Not me, I try to make mediocre beer.
That does raise a good question though. Can your beer be "slightly" infected? I would think that if your beer begins an infection, it will get worse and more noticable with time, in that a microbe has been introduced to an environment in which it can survive, metabolize, and multiply. I've never noticed any infection-related flavors or consequences in any of my beer. (Of course, I've had other problems!)
Of course it can. Microbes can spoil the beer a little, and then die due to cold storage, lack of nutrients etc. Or they can do their job so slowly that you will notice the effects only after several months.
Lastly I sent a beer to a competition, beer was excellent im my opinion, and I got feeedback - "too phenolic, probably from wild yeast infection"
There are 2 types of sanitizing methods, chemical and time/temperature. These definitions are set by... can't remember, EPA?, FDA?, NSF? IIRC, the method of determining sanitizing is if it kills 99.9% of E. coli. 180dF for 2 minutes completes this requirement. There is then a scale of time/temp (up to a certain time and down to a certain temp) that fits this definition. So, for example, 155dF for, say, 10 minutes (hypothetical) would also kill 99.9% of E. coli.
Yes, this is what I was getting out. I think its NSF (National Sanitation Foundation) that does it and the standard for residential dishwashers is NSF 184. I can't for the life of me figure out what exactly that means though. My dishwasher manual says it 'sanitizes by bringing the final rinse up to 155' but doesn't say for how long. Based on watching the dishwasher, (it has a timer on it) it looks like the sani-rinse cycle is 14 minutes.
it shows, that dishwasher is useless with regard of sanitation. ClO2 is the best, and it is what I use now.
My Bosch dishwasher has a sanitize feature. The bottles are steamed for a long period of time at 161 degrees. Works like a champ for me. No detergent or jet dry is used.
This is the best way for me to sanitize two cases of bottles. For just a couple, Starsan is the quickest and easiest.
it shows, that dishwasher is useless with regard of sanitation.
No, all it shows is that some guy in Modesto has a really crappy dishwasher.
My dishwasher, with "Sani-Clean" cycle, is the only method I've ever used for sanitizing bottles, with a 100% success rate. Thousands of bottles, never an infection. As long as you're putting clean bottles in, you'll get sanitized bottles out.
If I could fit my kegs in the dishwasher, I would.
__________________ FERMENTING: Members Only Maibock, Apfelwein KEGGED / BOTTLED: Düsseldorf Altbier, Honeydripper Hefe, High Yellow Strong Belgian Ale, Irish Red Ale, Canned Heat Wee Heavy ON TAP: Ó Flannagáin Extra Stout, Squeeze My Lemon Summer Blonde, Apfelwein ON DECK: Munich Helles, Ó Flannagáin Extra Stout, Cold Shot ESB
I used to do it in the dishwasher, but it took longer than just sanitizing them with star san.
I used to run the sanitizer button and the heated dry. The cycles of the dishwasher took a good 30 to 45 minutes. Then letting them cool also was another 15 or so.
With a bottling tree sanitizing bottle went down to about 15 minutes with star san
i have never had any infection through the dishwasher either. Just used the rinsed cycle a couple times before I threw the bottles in to make sure it was nice and clean. (which also added to bottling time)
when I bottle I use a dishwasher although its a cheapy with no sanitize cycle. after cleaning the bottles by hand I place them in the dishwasher and add 3/4 oz of starsan. turn off the heat option(I have heard that heat breaks down starsan) and run it. never had a problem with that method. Never had a leak from the dishwasher either for those that are thinking the starsan might damage it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
"I've got a fever... and the only prescription is, MORE CARBOYS!"
primary- Tangerine Dream, SWMBO slayer,
serving- amber ale hop experiment #6, Roggenbier, apfelwine
planning- Cru?
conditioning- 9/9/09 barleywine
Drink water?... Never, fish fornicate in it.--- W.C. Fields
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of force.
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