Quick question, does anyone sanitize their bottles using the dishwasher with the heat cycle on? I saw this in Palmer's book, and was thinking that it sounds easier than what I usually do, but I am somewhat hesitant to not use a sanitizing solution. Any thoughts? Personally, I hate sanitizing bottles, so anything to make it quicker and easier would be intruiging.
I do, and the hot water in my house is as hot as it will go. I have yet to have any bottle sanitation issues. I also rinse and wash each bottle after it's used thoroughly.
it shows, that dishwasher is useless with regard of sanitation. ClO2 is the best, and it is what I use now.
My dishwasher has a sani-rinse cycle and is NSF certified to sanitize at 155 degrees. It will tell you if it 'failed' to sanitize properly for whatever reason.
As for the heated dry cycle, I wouldn't count on that at all and that experiment kinda proves it. I would like to see this done in a lab with a sani-rinse cycle though.
I might try putting my probe thermometer inside one of the bottles next time and see what temperatures it hits and for how long.
it shows, that dishwasher is useless with regard of sanitation. ClO2 is the best, and it is what I use now.
Starxene, eh? Never heard of it.Star San is the the product they target toward homebrewers. Why not Starxene? Well, for one, it looks trickier to use: specific ph range required, addition of citric acid required, and err..um, if you let a bunch of it dry it it turns into an explosive. All good reasons I think I'll stick with Star San.
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Primary 1: Oktoberfest Lager Primary 2: Apricot Wit Primary 3: Christmas Warmer MkII Primary 4: Apfelwein Bottle conditioning: Vanilla Caramel Creme Ale Bottle conditioning: Brain Spawn Saison Bottle conditioning: Hot Shot Rye Red On Tap 1: Barletariot Cream Ale On Tap 2: Apfelwein
I use the dishwasher every time I bottle with no detergent or sanitizing solution. I've probably bottled twenty 10-12 gallon batches and have never had an infection. It really depends on your dishwasher. My dishwasher doesn’t have a “sanitize” function, but does have “heated wash”, “heated rinse”, and “heated dry” functions. I called GE and asked what temp my dishwasher is capable of reaching and GE said 140dF (regardless of the input hot water temp.). Since sanitizing is not just about temperature, but about time AND temperature, I figured this was good enough, based on my knowledge of microbiology and sanitizing. Regarding the experiments, “sanitizing” doesn’t kill everything anyway (that’s called sterilization). The only things that sterilize are an autoclave and maybe an oven at certain temps. So, you could always get cultured growth from anything that “sanitizes”. The question is, what are the chances of it infecting your beer?... extremely low, in my experience, probably no more than taking a hydro sample at the end of fermentation.
If your dishwasher has any kind of “heated” cycle, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on clean bottles. If I ever get an infection from what I believe was the bottles in my dishwasher, I’ll be sure to post it here. But for now, I’ll keep using it.
My dishwasher has a sani-rinse cycle and is NSF certified to sanitize at 155 degrees. It will tell you if it 'failed' to sanitize properly for whatever reason.
155 degrees fahrenheit? or celcius? I really don't see 155F being very effective against bacteria. Since "sanitization" is usually associated with chemical disinfection and not heat, I'm guessing the dishwasher companies (or NSF) have determined a temperature/time combo that disinfects with the same effectiveness as certain types of chemical sanitizers.
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Primary 1: Oktoberfest Lager Primary 2: Apricot Wit Primary 3: Christmas Warmer MkII Primary 4: Apfelwein Bottle conditioning: Vanilla Caramel Creme Ale Bottle conditioning: Brain Spawn Saison Bottle conditioning: Hot Shot Rye Red On Tap 1: Barletariot Cream Ale On Tap 2: Apfelwein
155 degrees fahrenheit? or celcius? I really don't see 155F being very effective against bacteria. Since "sanitization" is usually associated with chemical disinfection and not heat, I'm guessing the dishwasher companies (or NSF) have determined a temperature/time combo that disinfects with the same effectiveness as certain types of chemical sanitizers.
There are 2 types of sanitizing methods, chemical and time/temperature. These definitions are set by... can't remember, EPA?, FDA?, NSF? IIRC, the method of determining sanitizing is if it kills 99.9% of E. coli. 180dF for 2 minutes completes this requirement. There is then a scale of time/temp (up to a certain time and down to a certain temp) that fits this definition. So, for example, 155dF for, say, 10 minutes (hypothetical) would also kill 99.9% of E. coli.
Primary 1: Oktoberfest Lager Primary 2: Apricot Wit Primary 3: Christmas Warmer MkII Primary 4: Apfelwein Bottle conditioning: Vanilla Caramel Creme Ale Bottle conditioning: Brain Spawn Saison Bottle conditioning: Hot Shot Rye Red On Tap 1: Barletariot Cream Ale On Tap 2: Apfelwein
The question is, what are the chances of it infecting your beer?... extremely low, in my experience
And thats it, young beer is quite immune to the bacteria. I know people who just wash the bottles with hot tap water, no sanitation whasoever and they also claim they never had any infection in the bottle.
BUT you know, I try to make TBBP (the best beer possible), so I try to apply best techniques on each stage. Maybe, due to good bottle sanitation beer will gain 1-2 points?
Bottle Sanitation w/ dishwasher
All good reasons I think I'll stick with Star San. 
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