New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Best Vacuum Sealer




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2010, 03:33 AM   #1
Scut_Monkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,656
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts

Default Best Vacuum Sealer

Looking to get a vacuum sealer for hop purchases. Don't have much of a use for it outside of hops so a big fancy vacuum sealer isn't needed. I've narrowed it down to a cheap foodsaver, "Alvin" brake bleeder type sealer or a Pump n Seal.

My big question is does anyone know what vacuum rating a foodsaver or brake bleeder type vacuum sealer are able to pull? The pump n seal site gives some vacuum readings but I don't really trust the site entirely especially since the testing was done in 1993. Links below for more info on the different products I'm looking at. I'm leaning towards the Pump n seal due to the high vaccum it pulls, the simplicity of it and the low cost.

http://www.pump-n-seal.com/
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Alvin-Vacuum-Sealer/



__________________
Scut_Monkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 03:59 AM   #2
jppostKW
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Englewood CO
Posts: 1,816
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I am in the process of building the instructables one I have the same brake bleeder at work it will pull 20 inches of merc easily. the only item i havent picked up yet is the lid attachment.
I need to get it done because I have a lb of centinial on the way



__________________
Diesel Fuel Brewery

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulthenurse View Post
It would be the brewing equivalent of painting the Sistine Chapel with Crayola Crayons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
You sir, are a specialist in the art of discovering a welcoming outcome of a particular situation....not a mechanic.
jppostKW is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 01:55 PM   #3
Cliff897
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 468
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default on the "strength" of vacuum.

There is an absolute lower limit threshold established by Atmospheric pressure beneath which no practical vacuum can go. 30 inches Hg is about it. You can easily pull that with a hand pump. A three year old can do it.

If you can pull that much Hg you are at the absolute threshold of vacuum for all practical purposes. Below which all one is doing is counting molecules not air pressure.

Years ago I worked in a Ultra High Vacuum Physics lab. We'd use rotary vein and diaphragm pumps to pump down to the molecular flow regime (movable air) and get 30 inches of Hg. During the initial pumping stage the chambers would be baked at about 350 Degs F and higher up to the tolerances of the various equipment, to cook off or carbonize all the dirt that couldn't be scrubbed out.

Below Molecular Flow, we'd use mercury vapor pumps (they were a real hoot), turbomolecular pumps, Liquid Helium cold fingers, Getter pumps and some really weird old school guys using small glass systems would immerse their chambers in liquid helium or nitrogen turning the whole chamber into a cold finger. .

I liked the turbo pumps best. Less futzing around with them. The are like like miniature Jet Engines with stacked payers of angled veins with progressively acute tilt angles in each layer that would spin at up to 40 to 80 Thousand RPM.

When pumping at those molecular flow regimes the idea of pumping is pretty a misnomer. There is no actual pumping going on. What the pumps (of whatever type) do is take advantage of the adsorption and desorption of molecular particles. Things at the molecular level would adsorb (stick into) the first mole layer of the vacuum chamber's interior. Then those particles would desorb ( become unattached) and with some energy shoot off in any given direction. The molecular particles did not behave like billiard balls on a pool table, they went any damn direction.
When by happenstance and luck they fell into a pump they would be come trapped by the mechanism the pump used to capture them.

So that's it. After you get down to 30 inches you are pretty much just trapping random molecules by applying sophisticated traps from which they do not easily escape back into the chamber.

We'd get vacuum measured in Torr, to about 3 or 4 time 10 to the negative power of 14. Now they use Milibar 'cause it's so cool to sound all Euro, but numbers like that are only representing how many molecule or atomic particles are in a given volume of space in the chamber.

__________________
Cliff897 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 03:00 PM   #4
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 55 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Cliff,

That is some fascinating info. I was aware of the atmospheric limit and I've often wondered how you might pump "nothing" as you approached the limit. Pumping "something" is much different than pumping nearly "nothing" I plan to buy the Harbor Freight air powered vacuum pump, but it has Acme threaded fittings designed for evacuating automotive air conditioning systems. I'm hoping that the Acme thread adapter has standard 1/4" NPT threads where it connects to the pump and that I can simply remove the adapter and hook something up to make it work. The vacuum pump is only $9.95 on sale at HF, so the risk is minimal if it doesn't work out. The pump with the mason jar thingy should work if all goes as planned.

__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 03:14 PM   #5
EvilGnome6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 679
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

I have a Pump-N-Seal and am very pleased with it. The instructables method looks appealing but I've heard some people say it can be difficult to get the lid off without damaging it. With the Pump-N-Seal, you can lift the check-tab to release the vacuum before you try to pop off the lid.
__________________
EvilGnome6 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 04:25 PM   #6
shortyjacobs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,511
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

The Alvin sealer is what I use. The harbor freight pump gets down to around ~23 inHg. If you just put your finger over it, (no tubing, no jar), you can get around ~25 inHg, so I suppose if you pumped for hours on a mason jar, you'd get ~25 inHg.

As for getting the lid back off, it's a piece of cake. If you use a metal something or other, you can bend the rim, but if you just use your thumbs and some grunting, or something rubber, (mallet head, pencil eraser, etc....) it comes of no problemmo. Getting the lid off with difficulty is GOOD! It means you have a great vacuum inside.

__________________
Itchy Dog Brewery.

(As of 10-24-2011)
Primary - Steppe 112 PA, 2x Monday RyePA
Aging - None :-(
On tap - Big Dog, Apfelwein, Steppe 112 PA

My invisible AG sculpture, with no actual sculpture and a tiny footprint.
My Kegerator goes offroading!
My Coors Home Draft dispenser for boating/beering on the go.
shortyjacobs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 10:06 PM   #7
Scut_Monkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,656
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts

Default

So I'm still thinking the pump n seal would be best. Essentially I think all of three of the options I'm looking at would work great but I like the idea of using the pump n seal to seal any jar laying around the house. Plus they have the highest rated vacuum reading of "28.9 mmHg"
I would like a foodsaver but their prices can be a little too high for me even when purchased used on fleabay.

Just for comparison (not sure if it even matters)
Pump n Seal: 28.9mmHg
Foodsaver: 24.2mmHg (according to pump n seal site)
Alvin vacuum sealer: 23mmHg

__________________
Scut_Monkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 10:25 PM   #8
Cliff897
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 468
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

While watching the pump-n-seal video I was struck by the need to use some oil to facilitate the zip lock seal on a bag.
I just don't like the idea of adding that one element to the beer.

There was a lot of research done trying to use olive oil as a yeast nutrient instead of oxygen (I think it was instead of oxygen) the numbers they were working in were like 30 or 50 decimal places. It was staggering how little you had to use. I did a little crude guestimating math on it from a 5 gallon batch perspective not 50,000 hectoliters as the big commercials houses do. It looked like all one need to do was stick the point of a pin into a droplet of olive oil - but only just barely - then throw the pin in the beer to get the amount any near right.

With that in mind I looked askance at using any oil to facilitate the seal on a hops baggie.

But for doing a Glass mason Jar it's a whole different story. No oil needed.

I'm thinking that if I go with a vacuum sealer it'll be integral you know pump down and effect a melt seal all in one operation.

__________________
Cliff897 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 10:37 PM   #9
EvilGnome6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 679
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff897 View Post
While watching the pump-n-seal video I was struck by the need to use some oil to facilitate the zip lock seal on a bag.
I just don't like the idea of adding that one element to the beer.
Yeah, if you want to use bags, the Pump-N-Seal is a bit of a kludge. I use quart mason jars for storing my hops (1 jar holds a pound of pellets perfectly) so it's not an issue for me.
__________________
EvilGnome6 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2010, 10:45 PM   #10
Scut_Monkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,656
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts

Default

I think they should have never shown how to seal a bag in that video. It makes the product look like a complete turd. I would only be using it for jars which it seems to work very well with.

Just searched ebay and found nothing. I hate that site.



__________________
Scut_Monkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vacuum Sealer & Bags? Stevorino Equipment/Sanitation 42 02-16-2013 05:07 PM
Nuh uh, YOUR vacuum sealer sucks! EvilTOJ Hops Growing 73 12-18-2010 02:20 PM
For Sale - Black and Decker Vacuum Sealer BangorBrewer For Sale 5 12-03-2009 12:17 AM
Vacuum Sealer - Plastic vs. Mylar bags Anthony_Lopez Equipment/Sanitation 8 11-08-2009 06:43 PM
WANTED: Vacuum sealer advice 67coupe390 Equipment/Sanitation 5 06-18-2007 05:33 PM