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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Asco Red Hat Valves
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by kladue
You might want to pass on the ASCO 8316 models as they are a 3 way and need at least 5 PSI differential to operate as they are a pilot operated type valve. Be careful with seat materials as Viton and teflon are normally used with hydrocarbons.
After a little research, I finally understand what is meant by "pilot operated" and why the pressure differential is important. When the pilot chamber is open to line pressure, it helps to close and seat the valve. That happens when power is off on a normally-closed valve such as the 8210g15. If there's not enough line pressure, the valve might not seat and close all the way.

I suspect the 8210g15's I have won't work in my application after all. Neither would the 8210g37 (stainless). They might work in a propane setup with 5 PSI or higher pressure. They require a 5 PSI differential and I'm supplying roughly .25 PSI of natural gas. I can bump that up but not over 2 PSI as that is the max that the gas company supplies to my meter. And if I do that, I have to have another regulator between my brew stand and the house to drop the pressure back down to something between .25 and .5 PSI.

I don't know if the seat material is teflon or Viton. But I don't suppose it matters as it appears I'm going to have to sell these and get something that'll work on low pressure natural gas.

I think the 1/2 inch brass 8210g094 is probably better since it isn't a pilot-operated valve and is rated for 0 PSI differential. But it is for inert gas, not fuel gas.

The 8040g22 (0 to 2 PSI) or 8215g20 (0 to 50 PSI) are rated for fuel gas and are most likely the best choices.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:35 AM   #12
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Asco valves are the benchmark in solenoid valves, however there are so many different ones on ebay, finding the right ones was difficult for me, if you are using them to control the flow of gas( Brutus X) they need not be stainless steel. I believe the reason Lonnie used them was he wanted all the piping to be stainless steel to have it all match. After losing out on a few auctions, I searched for new ones at a reasonable price and found these ,

http://www.stcvalve.com/Process%20Valve.htm

this company was awesome to work with, and I paid like $53 dollars each for brand new, they shipped out really quick and seem to be a great alternative to the ASCO , if you want they have stainless steel too

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Old 01-12-2008, 03:40 PM   #13
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If you are looking for a valve for N.G. at .25 psi you should look for the direct diaphragm type valve as it needs to have the largest orifice size possible to flow at low pressure. It would probably be better to look for the aluminum bodied gas control valves from honeywell, johnson control/baso, or white rodgers as these valves are built with large orifices to keep pressure drop to a minimum. With asco or other type solenoid valves you will probably find that 1/2" line size valves will not flow enough at .25 psi.

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Old 01-12-2008, 04:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowenz
Asco valves are the benchmark in solenoid valves, however there are so many different ones on ebay, finding the right ones was difficult for me, if you are using them to control the flow of gas( Brutus X) they need not be stainless steel. I believe the reason Lonnie used them was he wanted all the piping to be stainless steel to have it all match. After losing out on a few auctions, I searched for new ones at a reasonable price and found these ,

http://www.stcvalve.com/Process%20Valve.htm

this company was awesome to work with, and I paid like $53 dollars each for brand new, they shipped out really quick and seem to be a great alternative to the ASCO , if you want they have stainless steel too
Great link, thank you mrbowenz. These look like great alternatives and prices are excellent.

I am now very cautious and I will make sure that I understand what I need before I buy again.

Is your system natural gas or propane, and what is your regulated input pressure?
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladue
If you are looking for a valve for N.G. at .25 psi you should look for the direct diaphragm type valve as it needs to have the largest orifice size possible to flow at low pressure. It would probably be better to look for the aluminum bodied gas control valves from honeywell, johnson control/baso, or white rodgers as these valves are built with large orifices to keep pressure drop to a minimum. With asco or other type solenoid valves you will probably find that 1/2" line size valves will not flow enough at .25 psi.
kladue thank you for your help. I'm learning a lot here.

would you mind looking at this description of the ASCO 8040/8215 valves? They are made for fuel gas and have aluminum bodies. In particular the chart on the bottom of the page shows the 8040G22 (0 to 2 PSI) and 8215G20 (0 to 50 PSI) 1/2 inch valves with Cv flow values of 5.4 and 4.8 respectively. Is this enough for 7 inch WC (about .25 PSI) natural gas? This seems to be what the valves are intended for and they do not appear to be internal pilot operated valves. I don't know if that means they are diaphragm valves or not.

Also, if you compare them to the 2W160-1/2 on this page that mrbowenz pointed out, it appears similar. The 2w160-1/2 is 1/2 inch brass (not aluminum) direct diaphragm valve with Cv=4.8.

Do you have know of any particular honeywell, johnson control/baso, or white rodgers valves suitable for 7 inch WC natural gas flow that I can compare with. I can't find anything but 24VDC valves and I need 120VAC because of the temperature controllers I'm using. Also, I notice that the 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch Honeywell valves I found have an outlet pressure of 3.5 inch WC, which is half my inlet pressure. Also, I can't find flow coefficients listed for Honeywell valves, so it's hard to compare to the other valves.
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:47 PM   #16
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Looks like both the the Asco 8215G20 and the 2W160 valves have same pressure drops which is a measurement called "cv" (GPM of water to produce 2 psi pressure differential), but the asco has a larger orifice. The Honeywell and others will be rated in btu's at 1" WC. pressure drop and typically can be found with 24VAC coils. If you use the line voltage controls just use a 120-24 vac transformer on the controller output or 1 24VAC transformer and 120VAC relays. Would be a bit suprised to find that the gas pressure in the house was above 6" WC as typically the regulators are set for 4" to make appliance controls happy.
Here is a Honeywell gas control valve that would probably work for what you want to do, plug the pilot outlet, and connect to the "MV" terminals, adjust pressure regulator in control valve for control of firing rate of the burner. http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-VR8305...QQcmdZViewItem

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Old 01-12-2008, 06:30 PM   #17
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I had a gas leak in my house in the summer and had to have the gas shut off. After the plumbers found it and repaired it, the gas company tech told me he set the pressure at the gas meter regulator to four ounces.

From sources on the internet (yeah, I know) one pound of pressure (1 PSI) is equivalent to 28 inches of water column, or 16 ounces of pressure, or 2 inches of mercury. That's probably true at a particular temperature and atmospheric pressure, so maybe some adjustment is needed for local conditions.

So four ounces would be .25 PSI or 7 inches of WC, right? The only gas appliances I have in my house are my furnace, my stove, and the fireplace log starter (manual valve feeding a bare pipe with slits cut in it). I don't know what pressure my furnace is rated for. It's a modern one about seven years old with electronic instant ignition, not standing pilot. The literature that came with my gas range says it can take 14 inches of water column, which would be .5 PSI. I believe it has it's own regulator on it that the gas line connects to.

I guess I'd have to use a manometer to know for sure, but since the gas guy told me he set it to four ounces, I figured that was 7 inches WC.

And thank you for the info on the valves and electrical.

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Old 01-12-2008, 06:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billtzk
I suspect the 8210g15's I have won't work in my application after all. Neither would the 8210g37 (stainless). They might work in a propane setup with 5 PSI or higher pressure.
I might know someone that would take them off your hands for a good price
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:44 PM   #19
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Most likely the gas service guy meant 4"WC which is the norm for residential gas systems.

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Old 01-12-2008, 07:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladue
Here is a Honeywell gas control valve that would probably work for what you want to do, plug the pilot outlet, and connect to the "MV" terminals, adjust pressure regulator in control valve for control of firing rate of the burner. http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-VR8305...QQcmdZViewItem
Since I'm now in the market for a different valve setup, I'm going to rethink the whole thing.

I was going to use a manually controlled standing pilot to ignite the burner when the temperature controller tells the gas valve to open. Might as well improve the design with a view toward safer operation. An electronic spark ignition valve like those used on furnaces seems like a better way to go.

That's what that VR8305M4801 valve is, isn't it? How is such a valve used in conjunction with an electronic igniter at the burner and what sort of igniter would do the trick?
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