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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Anyone subscribe to BYO ? (Self natural carbonating)
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:07 PM   #1
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Default Anyone subscribe to BYO ? (Self natural carbonating)

Brew Your Own magazine has an article

"Build Your Own Spunding Valve to Carbonate in the Keg Jan, 2007
With this homemade spunding valve you can naturally carbonate your hombrew by capturing the carbon dioxide produced late in fermenation just like many pros do on the commercial side."

I'm interested to hear what they say in it. I don't have a subscription. Could someone here paraphrase the article ? Maybe its time I got a subscription.

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Old 01-10-2007, 10:19 PM   #2
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I borrowed it from a friend and copied it...no way of sending it to you though...

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Old 01-10-2007, 10:28 PM   #3
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I think what they say is misleading as you don't really capture CO2 so much as control its release. The spunding valve just works such that it realeases pressure above a certain point. You rack to your serving tank instead of secondary near the end of fermentation. In the homebrewers case, you have to have a corny as the spunding valve fits on a quick disconnect for the keg. As the beer finishes fermenting, the spunding valve lets out the pressure above the level you desire, and you can control the naturally produced CO2 to force carbonate your beer. Only problem is you would lose the clearing benefits of a secondary. I have never done this, so I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it and I think it is problematic as I like to secondary my beers for a couple of weeks before priming/force carbing.

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Old 01-10-2007, 10:53 PM   #4
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"I think what they say is misleading as you don't really capture CO2 so much as control its release. The spunding valve just works such that it realeases pressure above a certain point."

A pressure relief valve, just like I used on my mash steam boiler. Adjustable from 45 to 20 PSI.

"You rack to your serving tank instead of secondary near the end of fermentation. In the homebrewers case, you have to have a corny as the spunding valve fits on a quick disconnect for the keg."

Hmmm... Better Bottles are rated for 15 PSI. And I've designed a fitting that fits in the neck good for at least that much pressure.

"As the beer finishes fermenting, the spunding valve lets out the pressure above the level you desire, and you can control the naturally produced CO2 to force carbonate your beer. Only problem is you would lose the clearing benefits of a secondary."

You could let the beer sit for a while and age and then rack to another vessel. Just pre charge it or do it under cold conditions so that the CO2 in the beer doesn't come out of solution. Kind of like counter pressure bottling, only its counter pressure kegging.

"I have never done this, so I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it and I think it is problematic as I like to secondary my beers for a couple of weeks before priming/force carbing."

The big boys must have a way of dealing with this. Filtering ? I'm interested to know, if anyone does know.

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Old 01-10-2007, 11:02 PM   #5
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I don't read BYO, so I can't help you with what is actually written there.

But I'm using this technique for all my lagers. The primary fermentation is done in a carboy and I will rack to the secondary/lagering keg when the remaining extract is about 2*P above the FG (generally after 7-10 days). If I plan/have to rack later I usually add Kraeusen to ensure that there will be enough yeast in suspension and extract to carbonate the beer. Then I let the pressure rise and blow off excess pressure manually. I haven't build myself a nifty pressure sensitive valve for that yet.

This is just another brewing technique that is used by virtually every German brewery and all the bigger brewers in America.

I recommend the primary fermentation in a different vessel since you want to take the beer off the yeast cake for the secondary and lagering and you cannot do a primary fermentation of more than 4-4.5 gal in a corny keg due to the needed head space.


Quote:
"I have never done this, so I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it and I think it is problematic as I like to secondary my beers for a couple of weeks before priming/force carbing."

The big boys must have a way of dealing with this. Filtering ? I'm interested to know, if anyone does know.
short description of the fermentation in a taditional German lager brewery:

- primary fermentation in a conical fermenter at 8-10*C for about 7 days. During the end of the primary fermentation the beer is slowly chilled to about 3-5*C
- racking to the lagering vessel. This happens with a remaining fermentable extract of 1-2 %. This vessel is spundet, meaning pressure can build up to achieve a CO2 content slightly above the one that is finally needed.
- optional dyacetyl rest at 3-5*C
- lowering of the temp to 0*C for lagering
- then they may add PVPP (polyclar) and filter using plate or diatomaceous earth filters
- adjustment of the CO2 content of the beer depending on the CO2 content needed for bottle or keg.

Once the beer is racked to lagering everything happens under pressure so the CO2 can't escape. This is economical (no extra CO2 needed) and necessary for Reingheisgebot compliance (only fermentation CO2 can be added to the beer).

I try to mimic this process as much as it is reasonable for a home brewer. My process differs only in the fact that I rack at about 10*C and let is rest there for a few days before getting it down to lager temps. I'm not sure if this makes a difference though.


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Old 01-10-2007, 11:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
I don't read BYO, so I can't help you with what is actually written there.

But I'm using this technique for all my lagers. The primary fermentation is done in a carboy and I will rack to the secondary/lagering keg when the remaining extract is about 2*P above the FG (generally after 7-10 days). If I plan/have to rack later I usually add Kraeusen to ensure that there will be enough yeast in suspension and extract to carbonate the beer. Then I let the pressure rise and blow off excess pressure manually. I haven't build myself a nifty pressure sensitive valve for that yet.

This is just another brewing technique that is used by virtually every German brewery and all the bigger brewers in America.

I recommend the primary fermentation in a different vessel since you want to take the beer off the yeast cake for the secondary and lagering and you cannot do a primary fermentation of more than 4-4.5 gal in a corny keg due to the needed head space.

Kai
Good summation. What do you prefer to use to raise the gravity? Are you a wort purest of an extract user?
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewpastor
Good summation. What do you prefer to use to raise the gravity? Are you a wort purest of an extract user?
I either rack when there is enough extract left or I add Kraeusen. The latter is wort left over from brew day (actually the filtered hop/break sludge that I stored in the feezer) which I boil in my 2L erlenmayer flask and pitch with some yeast from the primary.

I only use etract if I have to augment the OG for high gravity beers. I always make sure I have left over wort that I can use for priming and starters.

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Old 01-10-2007, 11:52 PM   #8
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I always reserve a couple quarts myself for the same use. It is just so easy to do.

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Old 01-11-2007, 12:00 AM   #9
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This is sorta off topic, but I'm considering getting a subscription to BYO. I got one issue so far, and it was okay, but it kinda seemed like a mix of too simple information combined with too advanced information. Nothing seemed to be right at my level. One article was about brewing belgians, and it had a lot of technical info about different amounts of aeration and yeast volume, and there was another article about wheat beers which was pretty much a fluff piece without any useful info. So, any opinions would be appreciated.

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Old 01-11-2007, 12:02 AM   #10
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I get it and read it cover to cover, but I just like to read, especially beer related items.

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