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Why can't we all get along?

Posted 07-22-2008 at 03:59 PM by Revvy
Why Can't We All Get Along?

I've noticed that a lot of newer homebrewer's see All-Grain as the holy mecca of beer perfection, like the minute they put the braid on their cooler and fire up the propane, their beer is "magically" going to be perfect.

I've also noticed some of these come back to the board with problems.

With bad, or dissapointing batches.

Many of these problems, I've noticed, were not complex issues having to do with the ph of the mash or conversion of starch to sugar, or anything specific to the all grain process, but were in fact, basic brewing mistakes, the same ones that many begining extract brewers make.

Issues dealing with basic sanitization, or hydrometer readings, following instruction, fermentation temperature, or even, simply, a lack of patience.

These are issues having to do with basic brewing process. Not the methodology or ingredients they used.

To be honest, if their process sucked as an extract brewer...adding more variables to the mix, as comes with brewing all grain, is just going to increase the potential suckiness....Not make their poorly made beer magically better.

I've really wanted to jump in on some of the n00b "Should I go straight to AG?" or "I'm going AG!!!" threads, or threads of people who have only done 1 or 2 beers and want to "make the leap" because they weren't happy with how their beer turned out.

I've wanted to tell them that they really should nail their process down, they should perhaps slow down and get a few more beers under their belt. I've wanted to suggest that they figure out why their recipes didn't turn out and work on that until they make great beers with extracts (like so many people do, many which have even won awards.)

And most of all I've wanted to tell them to quit blaming malt extract for their lousy beers....

I've choked down some mighty foul AG's and enjoyed some fantastic Extract beers, and even a few surprisingly good Mr Beer made beers...It's not the method that makes great beer, it is the brewer

See, I don't consider myself an AG'er or an Extracter...I'm a homebrewer, I make the best damn beer I can! The way I choose to do it differs from batch to batch, recipe to recipe, time commitment or mood...But, I put the same effort and skill in an Extract recipe, as I do to an allgrain.

Some of my best beers are extract w/grains, I've done a couple of them as AG and realized that they taste the same, if not better as their original extract recipe...(My amber ale and Yooper's dead guy clone, are two examples.)

So I don't NEED to spend the whole day brewing AG to make those beers.

Because I live in a loft with no yard, the vast majority of my beers are done as partial mashes, extract w/grains or lately, 2.5 gallon all grain experimental batches in various styles.

I haven't yet made the "leap" to insulating a large volume brewpot to do full volume boils inside.....So for me full volume AG is more of a social gathering with a group of brewers, or a single brew buddy, at their house.

It's a special "treat" to get to do this, stand at a turkey fryer for hours, but it will not gaurentee that the beer I make is going to instantly great because it was made totally with grain and not extract.

The great beers I make (as opposed to the flops, and I have had a few) are the result of the attention and skill that I put into the entire brewing process whether I'm standing at my stove dumping in extract, or draining my mashtun.

It has to do with proper cleanliness and sanitization, paying attention to fermentation temperature, having a well balanced recipe...and all the meticulous details of the brewing process, whether it is the handful for an extract batch or a whole "tech rundown" for an all grain recipe.... The beers that have not turned out, failed not because of the ingredients I used, (meaning grain or extract) but because I failed to pay meticulous attention to my process as a brewer...I got sloppy in some way.

I slipped in some way, not because I brewed using one methodology over another.

The problem I see is that too many recent converts, and some EAC's keep encouraging the idea that All Grain = instant perfection and status as a "real brewer." That you are somehow less of a brewer if you don't mash your own grain.

But couldn't this logic then also be used to say that if you don't malt your own grain at home, or grow your own hops, then you are less than the All Grain Brewer who does?

What I'm getting at can be summed up by this simple statement,"If you are brewing allgrain, and start an "is my beer ruined" or "my fermentation hasn't started" thread, and you have to be told to take a hydrometer reading because you haven't yet, then there is something seriously wrong with your fundamental brewing process, and perhaps you need to step back from something complex and return to basics.

Now before I get slammed for this blog by some of you, I already know the pros and cons of each style. I know you get a lot more control over the finished product with brewing all grain...I know the potential for extract twang and scorched extract...And I'm fully aware of the cost benefit of buying bulk grain for AG...In fact I have probably brought those things up on occasion....As well as some of the ways aroung some of the extract pitfalls.

I don't need to be "converted" to one way or another...I already do it all (except malt my own barley...yet)

I'm just saying that we should shy away from evangelizing our prefered method, most of those who do it are overly enthusiastic new "converts" to all grain, not the majority of brewers. That we are all here for the same reason....And that whether or not is made by opening a can of hopped extract, or light a fire on the turkey fryer, the end product is still beer, and that in the end we are all members of the same noble brotherhood...

That of the brewer.
Total Comments 14

Comments

Old
Well put Revvy. While I've just completed my first 2 AG brews in the past 2 weeks, and ordered ingredients for my third last night, I don't feel superior as a brewer because of it. Yes I'm excited, and can't wait to crack open that first AG brewed bier. But I'm most excited because I feel better about my "post boil kettle" process being improved as I've brewed more beer.

Jamil Z., Jon Palmer, and other noted homebrewers have stated again and again the most important parts of making a good bier are fermentation temp control, sanitation, and proper oxygenation. Those are the 3 elements more than anything else, especially malt extract vs AG, that have a positive or negative effect on our bier. I discovered I couldn't steep grains in a pot on the stove without extracting tannins... guess what I quit doing it, that's why I initially built my MT. I've started using a water bath and frozen 1 gal or 2 liter plastic bottles to keep my ferm temps down (it can be a challenge in Mississippi). As soon as I've got my kegging equipment bought I'll be investing in an oxygen system. My most important thing after that is to become a paying member of HBT! My efforts are going into controlling my process, improving my equipment to help with control, and improving my knowledge. I'd consider it a good approach for anyone struggling with homebrew issues!

Points well made, thumbs up!

Schlante,
Phillip
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Posted 07-23-2008 at 01:17 AM by MVKTR2 MVKTR2 is offline
Old
I really needed your blog. The longer I lurk, the bigger chicken I become. I've been tempted to start with a Mr. Beer because it seems more foolproof. I am still trying to figure out what all the different types of beer are and what goes into them. When I get overwhelmed I go to the local for a Guinness. Doesn't help with decision making but makes me feel better!

BTW- what does EAC mean?

Thanks!
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Posted 07-24-2008 at 02:18 PM by CNHBrewery CNHBrewery is offline
Old
mysteryberto's Avatar
I totally agree with this post. Almost all of my beers so far have been extract. They have all turned out great.

An excellent analogy is premade cookie dough vs cookies made from scratch. At the end of the day you still end up with delicious cookies.

I just brewed my first all grain last week and it was a lot of fun crushing the grain and mashing it.

Without extract I doubt many people including myself would have entered this hobby. It requires less equipment and time. You can focus on the brewing basics as you mentioned.

At the end of the day who really cares? Brewing with extract can make excellent beers regardless of what the nay sayers tell you. If you like your beer and have fun brewing that's all that should matter.
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Posted 08-02-2008 at 07:03 PM by mysteryberto mysteryberto is offline
Old
Well said.
I think there's a valuable message here for people. There are some fantastic beers out there that can be made with extract.

There are many routes to a destination. The shortest (extract) goes through a bad neighborhood, but as long as you have taken care of proper planning (a full tank of gas) you'll get there just fine. The longer routes (partial mash, AG, malting your own) go through increasingly picturesque (and safe) countryside.

I fully expect that after I finally go AG I'll come back to extract on occasion for a variety of reasons.

Three cheers for Revvy!!!
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Posted 08-20-2008 at 03:50 PM by GearBeer GearBeer is offline
Old
Well Said Revvy, for a time I thought AG was the ultimate but the longer I brew the more I realize that if your brewing and nailing your process down it doesn't matter how you do it. I'm amazed at all of the different ways you can go to come up with the same finished product.
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Posted 12-30-2008 at 12:20 AM by farmbrewernw farmbrewernw is offline
Old
Revvy the thinking mans brewer,something to think about. The learning process always takes time, that some people don't want to acknowledge.
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Posted 01-02-2009 at 06:22 PM by artyusmc artyusmc is offline
Old
Revvy, right as usal... I have brewed alot more cider then beer in my last 6 years... the beer i brewed was normally on commision or for an experiment. I tended to fallow the adivse of those who commisioned the beer, which depended on weather or not i went with Extract or with AG... AG has its benifits but is not a cure all. My first few AGs were sucessful by luck more then actul any kind of skill... I would like to think it was my first couple years of good brewing practice... and alot of really strict adherance to good directions... It helps to have sombody help, to have sombody who knows what they are doing to watch over you and correct you... Revy as i said, right as usal.

Cheers
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Posted 01-11-2009 at 01:07 AM by BrewinJack BrewinJack is offline
Old
IrregularPulse's Avatar
Wonderful write up.
I've had less than stellar results since switching to AG. I did 2 extracts and a PM before switching. I too switched partially to become a REAL brewer. but also because brew day just seemed so Un-Involved. I definitely enjoy a AG brew day more. But is the beer better? Statisically no. I had to dump my 2nd AG attempt which was Ed's Pale so I KNEW it was my process not the recipe. The others have all been either good or drinkable at the least. I have ingredients for a Yoop's Fat Tire coming next week and will be brewing hopefully the weekend of 3-14-09. I'll see how this batch goes. If it turns out good, I'll continue on with my AG life. If it is less than stellar I am thinking about going back to extract and steeping until I start making good batch after good batch. That way I will be for sure that it is not sanitation, water, or fermenting causing my off flavors. Simplifying the process to find issues.
I've done a simple 3 gallon extract batch since starting AG and it turned out fine and it was kind of nice to just hang out inside and brew with a buddy while drinking and watching TV and not really have to think about anything.
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Posted 03-04-2009 at 08:03 PM by IrregularPulse IrregularPulse is offline
Old
I have done almost 20 extract batches, and am still a rookie as far as I am concerned. I would like to eventually go all grain, but I am definatley not ready! When I do get closer to that time, I will plan to take baby steps. Start with doing an all grain at a friend's house with their rig for starters!
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Posted 05-19-2009 at 09:11 PM by Arkador Arkador is offline
Old
Well said.

You don't need to mill your own flour to bake a cake from "scratch".
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Posted 09-18-2010 at 03:23 AM by orj orj is offline
Old
I'm a boob and I'm starting on extract and I'm gonna enjoy it but most of all, I'm gonna be proud!! Lol. Thanks revvy
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Posted 03-04-2011 at 09:29 PM by The-randypan The-randypan is offline
Old
unionrdr's Avatar
Well put. I think maybe everyone joining this sight should have to read this blog. It's like I've been saying,if the beer is bad,blame the brewer,not the brew. It only took me two (2) batches to learn this. And many other things to do with process,ingredients,exactly how particular ingredients can/should be used,temps,...& most of all,patience! this last one simply & absolutely cannot be stressed enough. It doesn't matter what brewing method you prefer. Just don't think you're better than me because you went to AG asap. Or because I want to spend more time delving into all the possibilities of extract brewing,with so many flavor possibilities from so many countries. Not merely styles,but different flavors from different LME's & DME's made in said countries. It frustrates me to no end when folks don't listen when I interject this into a conversation where it can be relative. But that it's "only used to raise the OG" for instance. And this is where the next problem I've seen here comes in-folks not reading/understanding/giving a damn about everything that's said or alluded to in a post/reply. Seeing only what they want to see,it seems. To quick to jump in,all guns blazing before looking at what they're gunning down. That's an insult to the poster when you don't catch all the details stated or alluded too. This sermon is ended,brew in peace.
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Posted 04-17-2011 at 05:31 PM by unionrdr unionrdr is offline
Old
Hello

I am tryin
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Posted 04-22-2011 at 12:22 AM by caguama caguama is offline
Old
Desrever's Avatar
Good Read !!
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Posted 10-07-2011 at 10:31 AM by Desrever Desrever is offline
 


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