The "I" word...and other brewing words I'm tired of...(a Rant)
Posted 06-02-2008 at 02:45 AM by Revvy
I wish we could have a moratorium on bringing up the word "infection" on any n00b thread...Unless they are showing us a picture of a pellicule or actual mold growing on it...
The thing is the OP is looking for re-assurance, NOT feeding into their already present fear...
Come on, we know that fermentation is a butt ugly, sometimes smelly occurrence, and it is the first time that the new brewer is facing that. So besides being something new, something tinged with both excitement and apprehension (like sex for the first time) we really shouldn't feed into that fear.
To most n00bs a krauzen looks like an infection...They have no reference point to go on...Except us!
If it turns out that there is an actual infection THEN we educate them on how to not have it happen in the future, and/or what to do to stop it from spreading to the subsequent batches....
But based on the OP's description of the situation, or their brewing practice, I wish some people would not immediately whip out the "infection" word...
Nor should we bring up our other favorite gremlins/urban legends/personal brewing concerns, like "hot side aeration," "DMS," and "autolysis" right off the bat when answering a beginner's question...
Let's let the new brewer get through his/her first batch, from grain to glass, without fueling their already present fear/fire....
Let them actually enjoy the fruits of their first labors so that they can see what a fun and for the most part, relatively easy hobby it is.
A hobby that is as simple or as complex as we choose to make it...But one that no matter how we choose to approach the process, ultimately we are just taking a back seat to the yeasty beasties, who really know what the hell they're doing...Making Beer!
Let's remember to RDWHAHB, while we're helping the n00b to do the same.
And for God sakes, let's stick to the topic at hand and NOT try to convert the person asking the question to our way of doing things!!! If the OP is asking about bottling, Teach them about bottling, not tell them that kegging's better, or all grain when they're asking about extract...or trash their choice of a Mr Beer, or Cooper's kit...Or Starsan when they are asking specifically about Iodophor, or vice versa.
There's a big difference between a thread asking an opinion and thread asking a question and we should be smart enough to tell the difference.
Let's meet them where they are at, and educate them about what they are asking, not evangelize them to our way of brewing...
If we can't answer their questions, let's not throw more variables/confusion into their already confused/scared heads...Let's stay off the thread, and let the ones with actual experience on the topic step in.
I've actually sent PMs to people I know who have expertise on topics I really know little about, including the link to the thread, and asking them to step in and help....Do that instead...Be part of the solution instead of adding more to the problem.
The Op's looking for our knowlege, not our opinions on why we think what they're doing is wrong...
Guess what, whether it's in a bottle or a keg, is made via mashing or mixing extract, It is still beer
Now back to the original reason for the rant. We know infections do happen, BUT they are rare.
And it is more likely that an experienced brewer, like myself, will slip up in our process/sanitation practice, or have scratched equiptment/gunk hiding in our hoses from lots of use, or from just becoming overconfident/ lazy, then a hyper vigilent, first time or beginning brewer using the most rudimentary of sanitization practices on relatively new equipment.
But for all that, beer is a lot hardier than we give it credit.
Some people come down on me for saying this, but beer has been made (nearly spontaneously) since the Ancient Babylonians, and up until Louis Pasteur came along, with almost no knowledge about sanitzation practices.
And yes it may not have tasted as good as ours today (or maybe it did, we'll never really know), and yes sometimes it got infected BUT it must have been uninfected most of the time, and must have been damn good or else we wouldn't be drinking it today...it would have gone the way of the betamax, or Pepsi Clear, or New Coke, if most of the time it sucked.
So even the sloppiest of our sanitation practices blow away the ancient methods...even us simply having an enclosed place, clean fresh water, and the fact that we bathe on occasion is more than the ancients had...
So if their beer most of the time must have come out ok (since beer is still around) the odds of US having uninfected beers are greatly increased!
So instead of fanning the fear flames, let's use our knowledge and experience as brewers to put them out...Let's not turn the n00b off to this great hobby.
It ain't brain surgery we're doing here, it's making beer, but to the nervous brewer it seems just as complicated, and scary....Let's just try not to make it worse.
[/Rant]
The thing is the OP is looking for re-assurance, NOT feeding into their already present fear...
Come on, we know that fermentation is a butt ugly, sometimes smelly occurrence, and it is the first time that the new brewer is facing that. So besides being something new, something tinged with both excitement and apprehension (like sex for the first time) we really shouldn't feed into that fear.
To most n00bs a krauzen looks like an infection...They have no reference point to go on...Except us!
If it turns out that there is an actual infection THEN we educate them on how to not have it happen in the future, and/or what to do to stop it from spreading to the subsequent batches....
But based on the OP's description of the situation, or their brewing practice, I wish some people would not immediately whip out the "infection" word...
Nor should we bring up our other favorite gremlins/urban legends/personal brewing concerns, like "hot side aeration," "DMS," and "autolysis" right off the bat when answering a beginner's question...
Let's let the new brewer get through his/her first batch, from grain to glass, without fueling their already present fear/fire....
Let them actually enjoy the fruits of their first labors so that they can see what a fun and for the most part, relatively easy hobby it is.
A hobby that is as simple or as complex as we choose to make it...But one that no matter how we choose to approach the process, ultimately we are just taking a back seat to the yeasty beasties, who really know what the hell they're doing...Making Beer!
Let's remember to RDWHAHB, while we're helping the n00b to do the same.
And for God sakes, let's stick to the topic at hand and NOT try to convert the person asking the question to our way of doing things!!! If the OP is asking about bottling, Teach them about bottling, not tell them that kegging's better, or all grain when they're asking about extract...or trash their choice of a Mr Beer, or Cooper's kit...Or Starsan when they are asking specifically about Iodophor, or vice versa.
There's a big difference between a thread asking an opinion and thread asking a question and we should be smart enough to tell the difference.
Let's meet them where they are at, and educate them about what they are asking, not evangelize them to our way of brewing...
If we can't answer their questions, let's not throw more variables/confusion into their already confused/scared heads...Let's stay off the thread, and let the ones with actual experience on the topic step in.
I've actually sent PMs to people I know who have expertise on topics I really know little about, including the link to the thread, and asking them to step in and help....Do that instead...Be part of the solution instead of adding more to the problem.
The Op's looking for our knowlege, not our opinions on why we think what they're doing is wrong...
Guess what, whether it's in a bottle or a keg, is made via mashing or mixing extract, It is still beer
Now back to the original reason for the rant. We know infections do happen, BUT they are rare.
And it is more likely that an experienced brewer, like myself, will slip up in our process/sanitation practice, or have scratched equiptment/gunk hiding in our hoses from lots of use, or from just becoming overconfident/ lazy, then a hyper vigilent, first time or beginning brewer using the most rudimentary of sanitization practices on relatively new equipment.
But for all that, beer is a lot hardier than we give it credit.
Some people come down on me for saying this, but beer has been made (nearly spontaneously) since the Ancient Babylonians, and up until Louis Pasteur came along, with almost no knowledge about sanitzation practices.
And yes it may not have tasted as good as ours today (or maybe it did, we'll never really know), and yes sometimes it got infected BUT it must have been uninfected most of the time, and must have been damn good or else we wouldn't be drinking it today...it would have gone the way of the betamax, or Pepsi Clear, or New Coke, if most of the time it sucked.
So even the sloppiest of our sanitation practices blow away the ancient methods...even us simply having an enclosed place, clean fresh water, and the fact that we bathe on occasion is more than the ancients had...
So if their beer most of the time must have come out ok (since beer is still around) the odds of US having uninfected beers are greatly increased!
So instead of fanning the fear flames, let's use our knowledge and experience as brewers to put them out...Let's not turn the n00b off to this great hobby.
It ain't brain surgery we're doing here, it's making beer, but to the nervous brewer it seems just as complicated, and scary....Let's just try not to make it worse.
[/Rant]

Total Comments 6
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Not too shabby. Being as I read this early on a monday morning, my eyes darted around and barely followed the topic. However, I totally agree with the point of its tough to get an infection if you're even half trying not to. The whole "people have been fermenting for ages" and if they could do it in those conditions we have a better chance of coming away without an infection in todays world of homes and tap water and sanitizers etc etc...its a great point. Thanks for the rant.
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Posted 06-02-2008 at 01:26 PM by jzal8
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WOOT WOOT, I GOT A COMMENT!!! Thanks!
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Posted 06-02-2008 at 03:34 PM by Revvy
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Yes.
Yes. It wants to be beer. Get out of the way. |
Posted 06-02-2008 at 04:46 PM by olllllo
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OllllO,
I made this for you! ![]() ![]() |
Posted 06-02-2008 at 11:07 PM by Revvy
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Agreed! Prosted! (or whatever...
)Why is it that all the instructions, books, websites, and general "expert" knowledge on beer seems to make it look intimidating to a beginner? It's not that complicated, really. |
Posted 06-03-2008 at 05:59 PM by jds
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I think, as much as I respect it and reference it often, that How to Brew is the worse for that. Palmer's great BUT he's extremely technical in a lot of places, I believe too technical, and therefore scary for the n00b.
I think the whole Autolysis thing is an example...Most of the people who bring it up are usually beginning brewers, and they totally miss the final paragraph in that section, Quote:
As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis...
I wish we could put together an abridged version of it for N00bs, presenting the basic information to get a couple of successful brews under their belt, before getting deeper into the hardcore info. I wish Papazian were online, and we could reference it here more often, though a lot of it is outdated. I feel his laidback RDWHAHB attitude, and somewhat simplistic expainations of basic brewing concepts, without a lot of the highly detailed technical "problems" being mentioned would be more "calming" to beginners. |
Posted 06-03-2008 at 11:29 PM by Revvy
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Recent Blog Entries by Revvy
- Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. (09-04-2008)
- Think "evaluation" before "action." (08-21-2008)
- Review- Bell's Third Coast Old Ale (08-18-2008)
- Why can't we all get along? (07-22-2008)
- Time heals all things, even beer. (07-22-2008)








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