American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[LCBA]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

 

[Dgallo]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

 

[beervoid]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

 

[Dgallo]

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

 

[mrcastellino]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

 

[Dgallo]

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

All breweries make decision based on logistics for their systems, capabilities, and price points . My local who makes very solid IPAs, add their dry hops with 2-2.5*p (roughly 8 points in sg left), starts crashing and closes it up. For his system this allows him to rouse the hops, naturally carbonate, and get a level of aroma and flavor they are happy with it. Also helps from a cost perspective

And I know a local whale that waits til ferm is complete. Preforms some cone dumps, then dryhops with a hop cannon, and begins to crash. They will rouse with co2 as well.

We aren’t worried about profit margins as homebrewers so we do have some liberties breweries do not.

 

[beervoid]

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

found it


The funny thing is, I've heard some australian hype brewers pushing a new dryhopping technique that is exactly that procedure, fuge the beer clean then dryhop. forgot how they called it.

 

[Fergal]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

 

[beervoid]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

 

[ihavenonickname]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

 

[mrcastellino]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

that was my thought…just replace the centrifuge with cold crashing and fining.

Cold crash in fermentor…fine…dump yeast or transfer off. Dry hop…cold crash…fine.

 

[elproducto]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

 

[beervoid]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

 

[Dgallo]

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

I do not know as I’ve never tried but I’m assuming it would have a similar effect. my only concerns with this practice would be the additional transfer increasing o2 risks and if you do rack to dryhop, I’d be worried some of the biofine would go back in solution and pull the dryhops down immediately. That said you could always rouse if/when possible

 

[beervoid]

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

How would you define this haze?
Even stone would have some of the haze im talking about back in the days.
I mean it is still clear but if you watch closely it has small particles in it.

 

[Deka22]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

This is amazing

 

[Fergal]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

Yeah I've had their "clean fusion" beers. I mean, they are one of the best ipa brewers in Australia so their beers are usually pretty solid. Haven't been able to do a side by side comparison to see how much better their beers are with this process but what I can say is that I wasn't rushing out to try and do it myself. To me it's just an extension of what I currently do anyway by dropping all the yeast out before dry hopping. I use a fermzilla so I can remove the collection tub and have pretty clean beer to dry hop with. It would make a good brulosophy experiment though....